Map update

[- Bobb -]

I see new update (2016.10) out as on July.

Garmin Express says 5gb and 3hr download but what I would REALLY like to
know regarding map updates is: what IS the update ? No listing anywhere of
details ?

I know it would be tedious for them BUT ( for example) if 814 changes and
NONE of them are in FLORIDA and I'm only in Florida for the next few
months, then I'd skip it.

Would be better for them ( server bandwidth) and us ( less time, less strain
on their server - quicker for folks that DO want it.)

OR you think they just sync their map to Naxteq's ( or whoever) and do not
know (or care about ) the changes ?


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[Ed Pawlowski]

Post by - Bobb -
I see new update (2016.10) out as on July.
Garmin Express says 5gb and 3hr download but what I would REALLY like to
know regarding map updates is: what IS the update ? No listing anywhere of
details ?
I know it would be tedious for them BUT ( for example) if 814 changes and
NONE of them are in FLORIDA and I'm only in Florida for the next few
months, then I'd skip it.
Would be better for them ( server bandwidth) and us ( less time, less strain
on their server - quicker for folks that DO want it.)
OR you think they just sync their map to Naxteq's ( or whoever) and do not
know (or care about ) the changes ?

It possibly is a rather long list of changes that may or may not
affect you. Change a road sign and that is a change to be listed.
Could be thousands.

Keep in mind they also update the POIs too and that can be a big help.
Best to set it up to update when you go to bed so you can finish up
in the morning.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by - Bobb -
I see new update (2016.10) out as on July.
Garmin Express says 5gb and 3hr download but what I would REALLY like to
know regarding map updates is: what IS the update ? No listing anywhere of
details ?
I know it would be tedious for them BUT ( for example) if 814 changes and
NONE of them are in FLORIDA and I'm only in Florida for the next few
months, then I'd skip it.
Would be better for them ( server bandwidth) and us ( less time, less strain
on their server - quicker for folks that DO want it.)
OR you think they just sync their map to Naxteq's ( or whoever) and do not
know (or care about ) the changes ?

If you're agonizing over map updates, you're doing it wrong.

I wonder how any of us got along 40 years ago, what with old paper maps
in the car and whatnot.

Just use the maps you have.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
I wonder how any of us got along 40 years ago, what with old paper maps
in the car and whatnot.
Just use the maps you have.

Paper maps? You mean Garmin screen shots?

[The Real Bev]

Post by Ed Pawlowski

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
I wonder how any of us got along 40 years ago, what with old paper maps
in the car and whatnot.
Just use the maps you have.

Paper maps? You mean Garmin screen shots?

:-)

When we were traveling and stopped for gas the children were expected to
go to the restroom and then grab one of every map the station offered.
We still have boxes of them -- unfortunately on a high shelf behind some
stuff such that we can't actually get at them :-)

I like the Rand McNally road atlases and still have some of those
accessible. And a couple of Thomas Guides in the car. You never can tell...

[- Bobb -]

Post by The Real Bev

Post by Ed Pawlowski

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
I wonder how any of us got along 40 years ago, what with old paper maps
in the car and whatnot.
Just use the maps you have.

Paper maps? You mean Garmin screen shots?

:-)
I like the Rand McNally road atlases and still have some of those
accessible.

I get them from Wal-Mart each year for about $7. I don;t know why so cheap
there, but the "same thing" (without their advertising on it) elsewhere is
about $20.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Post by Ed Pawlowski

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
I wonder how any of us got along 40 years ago, what with old paper maps
in the car and whatnot.
Just use the maps you have.

Paper maps? You mean Garmin screen shots?

Put the Garmin on the scan glass of your copier at work; scan it to your
email, then just to be safe make a copy.

[- Bobb -]

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty

Post by - Bobb -
I see new update (2016.10) out as on July.
Garmin Express says 5gb and 3hr download but what I would REALLY like to
know regarding map updates is: what IS the update ? No listing anywhere of
details ?
I know it would be tedious for them BUT ( for example) if 814 changes and
NONE of them are in FLORIDA and I'm only in Florida for the next few
months, then I'd skip it.
Would be better for them ( server bandwidth) and us ( less time, less strain
on their server - quicker for folks that DO want it.)
OR you think they just sync their map to Naxteq's ( or whoever) and do not
know (or care about ) the changes ?

If you're agonizing over map updates, you're doing it wrong.
I wonder how any of us got along 40 years ago, what with old paper maps
in the car and whatnot.
Just use the maps you have.

------

I'm not agonizing . Just didn't want to waste time/disk space. And 40 years
ago there wasn't the PROMISE of "avoiding traffic".

Well, I did the upgrade.

TO see if difference, after new map loaded, I plugged in:
go
FROM Manchester NH
TO Woodbridge , VA
To Woodbridge, NJ.
and see :
it still takes me via GW Bridge in NYC even at 9am - down to DC, then on way
back, rather than leaving me on i-95N around DC, it still has me get
off/onto MD-295 (local road 2 lanes, speed cameras) when I-95 can now take
you right through that area.

In that example, if in NH and heading south, on ANY day I think heavy
traffic on GW Bridge as opposed to I-84, Tappan Zee bridge. Google does the
same thing so map is not Garmin's FAULT, BUT Google is showing me a FREE
map/directions. I PAID Garmin to have more intelligence via their
software... that's their "value added". But I find none - I can use my
smartphone while driving to get same info. In fact, if you do it online at
Google, zoom in on Fort Lee,NJ you can choose TYPICAL TRAFFIC and a
time-of-day. For FREE. Try Monday 9AM. But leaving NH at 4-5 AM , Garmin
wouldn't see that/ doesn't use that info. It has us drive right INTO it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8120175,-73.8732509,11z/data=!5m1!1e1

I would like Garmin to get me around EXPECTED traffic. No option for us to
select "Take longer route (miles) if quicker (time)". Or " AVOID a route".
It always routes me AROUND Hartford, CT, Around Richmond, VA because the
alternates are a few miles shorter, But now I'm on SIDE STREETS in CT (yeah
it has a state hwy designation, but it's New England - old roads connected
to make a state highway) - in who knows what kind of traffic.

I have work-around by selecting city near my alternate route - Nyack,NY as a
via point in this case. It then routes me over T-Z but when going to areas I
am not familiar with I have to tell it in advance. I have workaround and
several North,south desired routes saved onto GPS, but find more friends
retiring and running into " driving where they are told by GPS " and
complaining about traffic.
Anyhow .. flame off.
Thanks for the feedback.



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[Ed Pawlowski]

Post by - Bobb -
Well, I did the upgrade.
go
FROM Manchester NH
TO Woodbridge , VA
To Woodbridge, NJ.
it still takes me via GW Bridge in NYC even at 9am - down to DC, then on
way back, rather than leaving me on i-95N around DC, it still has me get
off/onto MD-295 (local road 2 lanes, speed cameras) when I-95 can now
take you right through that area.

It always tries to take the GW. I wonder if en route it would take you
a different way based on current traffic. There is a simple solution
for me though as I've done that trip over a hundred times. I don't turn
the NAV on until I'm close to my destination if I'm going to need it.
Rare that I'd take the GW over the Tappan Zee.

Post by - Bobb -
In that example, if in NH and heading south, on ANY day I think heavy
traffic on GW Bridge as opposed to I-84, Tappan Zee bridge.

With no traffic the GW is shorter, but if the real time traffic works,
it should take you around it. I've never tried it though.

Post by - Bobb -
I would like Garmin to get me around EXPECTED traffic. No option for us
to select "Take longer route (miles) if quicker (time)". Or " AVOID a
route". It always routes me AROUND Hartford, CT, Around Richmond, VA
because the alternates are a few miles shorter, But now I'm on SIDE
STREETS in CT (yeah it has a state hwy designation, but it's New England
- old roads connected to make a state highway) - in who knows what kind
of traffic.

I just stay on 84 through Hartford. Most times it is still better than
alternatives. I know that from experience, but a first time motorist
would not know it.

One of the problems is that the computer thinks the same way all the
time. It does not know the peculiarities of different neighborhoods. I
tried it on a route that is use frequently I travel on a good secondary
road, then turn left at the light to another good secondary road.
Minimal traffic, easy drive. The navigation would have me turn left
about a half mile ahead, then right left, right, left. The computer
probably sees it 100 yards shorter, but it does not see the school bus,
the kids on bikes, the four way stop signs, the car backing out of the
driveway.

Navigation is a very handy tool, but it is far from perfect. Better
to have some idea where you are headed and try to find a route that
suites you, not a computer. Would be nice if it was easier to put in
exceptions and preferences, such as the TapZ over the GW.

[- Bobb -]

Post by - Bobb -
Well, I did the upgrade.
go
FROM Manchester NH
TO Woodbridge , VA
To Woodbridge, NJ.
it still takes me via GW Bridge in NYC even at 9am - down to DC, then on
way back, rather than leaving me on i-95N around DC, it still has me get
off/onto MD-295 (local road 2 lanes, speed cameras) when I-95 can now
take you right through that area.

It always tries to take the GW. I wonder if en route it would take you a
different way based on current traffic. There is a simple solution for me
though as I've done that trip over a hundred times. I don't turn the NAV
on until I'm close to my destination if I'm going to need it. Rare that
I'd take the GW over the Tappan Zee.

Post by - Bobb -
In that example, if in NH and heading south, on ANY day I think heavy
traffic on GW Bridge as opposed to I-84, Tappan Zee bridge.

With no traffic the GW is shorter, but if the real time traffic works, it
should take you around it. I've never tried it though.

I have lots of workarounds... on GPS I save them as NBxxx and SBxxxx
SO when driving from VT to NC. I choose WHERE TO : NC and then Where To -
SB (cr)
and they appear. I do not want to NOT USE it as a workaround. That's
really point here- I am NOT in the map GPS busniess- they are and I would
think THEY would offer these marketing suggestions. When they DO give me the
directions I would LIKE to be able to display it and choose AVOID and THEN
have it offer alternate routes to me. Not have me define one.

On SB route, I first have a spot on 95S in Hartford so it directs me right
thru ( I can always detour if traffic is heavy)
then Sleepy Hollow, then exit 14a on 287 ( top of GS Parkway to avoid
NYC)... then I stay on GSP past first 95 connection suggestion - for me,
always less traffic on GSP than 95 in early AM.

I saved all of these in files that I can pull up and just click 'the next
one'.
BY doing this I can see what IS traffic really like.
I wouldn't want to NOT use it and turn it on south of Hartford to only to
find out that ... going MY WAY today has 2 overturned trucks IN HARTFORD. I
want to know that when I am driving.

Post by - Bobb -
I would like Garmin to get me around EXPECTED traffic. No option for us
to select "Take longer route (miles) if quicker (time)". Or " AVOID a
route". It always routes me AROUND Hartford, CT, Around Richmond, VA
because the alternates are a few miles shorter, But now I'm on SIDE
STREETS in CT (yeah it has a state hwy designation, but it's New England
- old roads connected to make a state highway) - in who knows what kind
of traffic.

I just stay on 84 through Hartford. Most times it is still better than
alternatives. I know that from experience, but a first time motorist
would not know it.

THAT is my point.
If I am buying a GPS WITH TRAFFIC, I'd like its input.

One of the problems is that the computer thinks the same way all the time.
It does not know the peculiarities of different neighborhoods. I tried it
on a route that is use frequently I travel on a good secondary road, then
turn left at the light to another good secondary road. Minimal traffic,
easy drive. The navigation would have me turn left about a half mile
ahead, then right left, right, left. The computer probably sees it 100
yards shorter, but it does not see the school bus, the kids on bikes, the
four way stop signs, the car backing out of the driveway.
Navigation is a very handy tool, but it is far from perfect. Better to
have some idea where you are headed and try to find a route that suites
you, not a computer. Would be nice if it was easier to put in exceptions
and preferences, such as the TapZ over the GW.

Exactly.
That's what I wrote to Garmin. They said "would review it at next meeting".
What that means ? ... got me since I'm not sure if THEY write the code or
merely use NAVTEQ's info.




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[Peter H. Coffin]

Post by - Bobb -
I have work-around by selecting city near my alternate route - Nyack,NY as a
via point in this case. It then routes me over T-Z but when going to areas I
am not familiar with I have to tell it in advance. I have workaround and
several North,south desired routes saved onto GPS, but find more friends
retiring and running into " driving where they are told by GPS " and
complaining about traffic.

Garmins don't predict traffic yet, they only work on live loads that
they receive, for the area they're already in, as of 5-15 minutes ago.
The traffic range isn't that far -- 30-40 miles seems to be about it.
Plus, the traffic receiver is in the car cord, not in the head unit. So
if you're sitting in your house, punching in a destination and laughing
at what it comes up with, bear in mind that you're munching on apples
and being in the car, half way to your your destination, is drinking
orange juice.

[Aldo Raine]

Post by Peter H. Coffin
Garmins don't predict traffic yet, they only work on live loads that
they receive, for the area they're already in, as of 5-15 minutes ago.
The traffic range isn't that far -- 30-40 miles seems to be about it.

Just curious-- how can any device or system "predict" specific traffic
flows other than regurgitating data based on typical/historic patterns?

Kinda spooky to think it knows that at 7:53 AM on August 23rd, the aging
water main under the Trowbridge interchange will burst producing a 40
foot geyser, the right front tire on Joe Bob's poorly maintained F-150
will have a blowout causing him to bounce off the guardrail, and a high
speed police chase will end when officer Krupke PITs the stolen 'Vette
he's been chasing for 10 miles-- thus blocking all lanes...

[Ed Pawlowski]

Post by Aldo Raine

Post by Peter H. Coffin
Garmins don't predict traffic yet, they only work on live loads that
they receive, for the area they're already in, as of 5-15 minutes ago.
The traffic range isn't that far -- 30-40 miles seems to be about it.

Just curious-- how can any device or system "predict" specific traffic
flows other than regurgitating data based on typical/historic patterns?
Kinda spooky to think it knows that at 7:53 AM on August 23rd, the aging
water main under the Trowbridge interchange will burst producing a 40
foot geyser,

Of course it can't predict that, but it is fairly easy to predict
traffic will be heavy at the George Washington Bridge on a regular
basis. Every major city has it hot spots.

[- Bobb -]

Post by Aldo Raine

Post by Peter H. Coffin
Garmins don't predict traffic yet, they only work on live loads that
they receive, for the area they're already in, as of 5-15 minutes ago.
The traffic range isn't that far -- 30-40 miles seems to be about it.

Just curious-- how can any device or system "predict" specific traffic
flows other than regurgitating data based on typical/historic patterns?
What exactly is anyone’s “fair share” of what someone else has worked for
and earned?

In my last post I showed - if you go to Garmin and plug in my route, you can
also click TRAFFIC and then " now" or "historic". It then asks for day/time
and it displays. THAT should be an option for input. So highlight GWB
intersection and pick day / time - there it is. So if I am in Boston at 1pm
and Where to - "VA" ,that gets me to GWB at ... 5pm. Pick a day - enter 5pm
and I think you'll see that ANY day is busy. Last time I was in the area, it
was about 4pm - time was going by, nothing moving AT ALL and I asked driver
next to me - "what's going on ?" His reply - "what do you mean - this is
normal."

HE seemed to think it was predictable.




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[Albert]

Post by - Bobb -
I see new update (2016.10) out as on July.
Garmin Express says 5gb and 3hr download but what I would REALLY like to
know regarding map updates is: what IS the update ? No listing anywhere of
details ?
I know it would be tedious for them BUT ( for example) if 814 changes and
NONE of them are in FLORIDA and I'm only in Florida for the next few
months, then I'd skip it.
Would be better for them ( server bandwidth) and us ( less time, less strain
on their server - quicker for folks that DO want it.)
OR you think they just sync their map to Naxteq's ( or whoever) and do not
know (or care about ) the changes ?
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I just upgraded maps on my nuvi 2595 to software version 8.20 and map
full coverage North American 2016.10.

It gave me a 3+ hours download time and I'm running DSL 1.5 MBS
download. It actually took close to 16 hours. Last time I updated it
was about the same thing so I called Garmin complaining that their
servers were way overloaded and the person I talked to ignore the
comment. I also asked if it would be possible when they do an update
that they make available a DVD for a nominal fee where their customers
but have a choice of updating that way. I haven't heard anything about
that suggestion either. I have friends who have DSL up to 57 MDS
download and they complain about the length of time it takes to
download the updates. So it probably is Garmin's server speed.

As far as the 2595 is concerned I am really satisfied with it
especially the voice navigation capability. The nuvi 7 series that I
have doesn't have that capability.