Garmin 2595 Evil

Post by The Real Bev
I told it to take me home. It put me onto a west-going street, had make
a left and a right and a right and then a left back onto the west-going
street. Did it think I wanted the scenic route through a
lower-middle-class residential neighborhood instead of just going
STRAIGHT THROUGH back to the freeway? It also routed me along 16 miles
of signal-filled backroads to avoid some ephemeral slowdown on I-5. I'm
about to take the damn thing back as defective.
A previous Garmin routed me over the edge of a mountain road TWICE and
wanted me to take an off-ramp, continue on a couple of hundred feet, and
then get back on the freeway at the on-ramp.
It also beeps for 'traffic ahead' when I've come to a complete stop in
the traffic jam.
Are Magellans any better? If you have to check the route beforehand and
can't trust it to reroute you around serious obstacles you might as well
use a paper map.

I never had it that bad, but all the nav systems have quirks. I don't
really trust the traffic though, but in most areas I travel it is not an
issue. It did once re-route me around a serious jam, but other times,
the traffic was flowing again but it still wanted to put me around it.

Good as they are, it is still a good idea to have a sense of where you
are going and how to get there. I made three tips to a particular store
and it took me a different route every time, but none were seriously
different time wise. Computers still think different than us.

Be sure your maps are up to date as some of the glitches like the West
bout route may have been corrected.

Bert

2015-05-12 14:18:25 UTC

Post by The Real Bev
A previous Garmin routed me over the edge of a mountain road TWICE and
wanted me to take an off-ramp, continue on a couple of hundred feet,
and then get back on the freeway at the on-ramp.

The route that your receiver generates is only as good as the data in
the maps, which is often terrible.

If you're feeling chartitable, take the time to go to Garmin's Web site
and report the errors that you find.

Post by The Real Bev
It also beeps for 'traffic ahead' when I've come to a complete stop in
the traffic jam.

Again, the traffic warnings are only as good as the data, which is
usually quite old by the time it filters through the system.

--
***@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN

Charlie Roberts

2015-05-12 22:58:09 UTC

The route that your receiver generates is only as good as the data in
the maps, which is often terrible.

And, perhaps the algorithms. I have mine set to "least time" and it
gives me a round about route that takes an extra exit on the highway,
and then some major streets, when getting off the highway an exit
early and taking some small streets can save time *and* distance!
Never figured why it does it the other way.

I must say the Nuvi 65 LMT was quite impressive in Europe, taking
us precisely to the little hotels deep in the woods.

And then, turned into junk (for me) because it suddenly lost the
ability to talk to Basecamp. It can communicate with the computer
(I can see the internal memory and the SD card), but once Basecamp
is fired up, everything folds. (I did write about it a few weeks
back.)
Today, it started its journey back. Luckily, it was still under
warranty and I got the RMA. More on this, later, when the
'new' unit comes.

CR

The Real Bev

2015-05-13 06:03:36 UTC

Post by Charlie Roberts

The route that your receiver generates is only as good as the data in
the maps, which is often terrible.

I'd like a setting to ALWAYS prefer freeways, since that's generally
what I want to do -- go somewhere on a freeway until I have to get off
near my destination. The detours I mentioned in my original post were
outrageous.

Post by Charlie Roberts
I must say the Nuvi 65 LMT was quite impressive in Europe, taking
us precisely to the little hotels deep in the woods.
And then, turned into junk (for me) because it suddenly lost the
ability to talk to Basecamp. It can communicate with the computer
(I can see the internal memory and the SD card), but once Basecamp
is fired up, everything folds. (I did write about it a few weeks
back.)
Today, it started its journey back. Luckily, it was still under
warranty and I got the RMA. More on this, later, when the
'new' unit comes.

It's probably out of warranty, but I can scream loudly when needed and I
bought it across the street. I'll have to fire up my windows machine to
check for new maps etc. Soon...

--
Cheers, Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the
American Public." -- H.L. Mencken

Owen McKenzie

2015-05-13 12:58:00 UTC

Post by The Real Bev
I'd like a setting to ALWAYS prefer freeways, since that's generally
what I want to do -- go somewhere on a freeway until I have to get off
near my destination. The detours I mentioned in my original post were
outrageous.

What are your current settings as far as route preference?

I have a Garmin in the same series and don't have those problems.

--
Owen McKenzie

“Without data you’re just another person with an opinion”
W. Edwards Deming

“If we have data, let’s look at the data. If all we have are
opinions, let’s go with mine”
Jim Barksdale, former CEO of Netscape

The Real Bev

2015-05-14 05:50:10 UTC

Post by Owen McKenzie

What are your current settings as far as route preference?
I have a Garmin in the same series and don't have those problems.

Short time or short distance. I've tried both. Insufficient,
especially since sometimes "shorter distance" means getting off the
freeway and using surface streets before getting back on. I can also
avoid tolls and ferries :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
===============================================
Last night I played a blank tape at full blast.
The mime next door went nuts!

Owen McKenzie

2015-05-14 14:55:39 UTC

Post by Owen McKenzie

What are your current settings as far as route preference?
I have a Garmin in the same series and don't have those problems.

Fastest time generally works best for me. I also avoid toll roads, but
you have to be careful with that. There is one short (mile or so)
stretch of I80 south of Chicago that my GPS wanted to send me on a
several mile detour to avoid.

Bert

2015-05-13 18:17:13 UTC

Post by Charlie Roberts
And, perhaps the algorithms. I have mine set to "least time" and it
gives me a round about route that takes an extra exit on the highway,
and then some major streets, when getting off the highway an exit
early and taking some small streets can save time *and* distance!
Never figured why it does it the other way.

Again, I'll blame that sort of behavior on the map data.

If I leave my home and have a destination somewhere south on I-35, the
sensible route would take me to the nearest on-ramp for soutbound I-35E,
which is about a half-mile south of here. However, the route always
takes me to the next interchange farther north.

If I ignore the suggested route and drive to the cross street nearest
the proper interchange, looking directly at the on ramp, the route will
STILL insist that I take a very convoluted trip through the neighborhood
to get to the distant interchange.

I finally realized that the map data doesn't know that I can make a left
turn on the cross street to get onto the southbound onramp.

Once I drive into the intersection and am in the lane leading to the
onramp, the route will re-calculate, directing me to the adjacent
soutbound ramp as it should.

I've submitted this error to Garmin and expect it to show up on a map
update in a few years :-)

On a recent trip to Florida, I found that Google Maps on my phone gave
really good directions, having the advantage of much newer maps, downloaded
as needed. Now that Google's turned on voice navigation, I'm seriously
considering scrapping the GPSR and buying some sort of dash or window mount
for my phone.

--
***@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN

Sunshine

2015-05-13 19:56:11 UTC

Again, I'll blame that sort of behavior on the map data.
If I leave my home and have a destination somewhere south on I-35, the
sensible route would take me to the nearest on-ramp for soutbound I-35E,
which is about a half-mile south of here. However, the route always
takes me to the next interchange farther north.
If I ignore the suggested route and drive to the cross street nearest
the proper interchange, looking directly at the on ramp, the route will
STILL insist that I take a very convoluted trip through the neighborhood
to get to the distant interchange.
I finally realized that the map data doesn't know that I can make a left
turn on the cross street to get onto the southbound onramp.
Once I drive into the intersection and am in the lane leading to the
onramp, the route will re-calculate, directing me to the adjacent
soutbound ramp as it should.
I've submitted this error to Garmin and expect it to show up on a map
update in a few years :-)
On a recent trip to Florida, I found that Google Maps on my phone gave
really good directions, having the advantage of much newer maps, downloaded
as needed. Now that Google's turned on voice navigation, I'm seriously
considering scrapping the GPSR and buying some sort of dash or window mount
for my phone.

I switched to Google maps about 2 1/2 years ago and haven't regretted it in
the least. Maps that update automatically and without cost or human
intervention, voice navigation (both input and output), no requirement to
mess with an additional device (I already always have my phone with me),
traffic-sensitive routing recommendations, plus a host of smaller benefits,
all add up to a much better GPS experience than I ever got from my Nuvi 760.

I'm not sure what you meant when you said 'now that Google has turned on
voice navigation'. I've been using voice to enter my destination, and using
Google's voice output for directions, since at least January 2013. To be
fair, I use Samsung's equivalent of Siri to voice-enter my destination, and
Siri-alike fires up Google Maps on my behalf, which takes over from there.

The Real Bev

2015-05-14 05:53:25 UTC

Post by Sunshine
I switched to Google maps about 2 1/2 years ago and haven't regretted it in
the least. Maps that update automatically and without cost or human
intervention, voice navigation (both input and output), no requirement to
mess with an additional device (I already always have my phone with me),
traffic-sensitive routing recommendations, plus a host of smaller benefits,
all add up to a much better GPS experience than I ever got from my Nuvi 760.
I'm not sure what you meant when you said 'now that Google has turned on
voice navigation'. I've been using voice to enter my destination, and using
Google's voice output for directions, since at least January 2013. To be
fair, I use Samsung's equivalent of Siri to voice-enter my destination, and
Siri-alike fires up Google Maps on my behalf, which takes over from there.

The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.
OSMand doesn't, but it needs to be beaten into submission to do the
simplest things.

--
Cheers, Bev
===================================
Last night I played a blank tape at full blast.
The mime next door went nuts!

Sunshine

2015-05-14 06:59:02 UTC

The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.

No, it doesn't. It wouldn't be very practical if that were the case. Did you
mean something else?

Howard Lester

2015-05-14 12:02:28 UTC

Post by The Real Bev
The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.

No, it doesn't. It wouldn't be very practical if that were the case. Did you
mean something else?

How much cell-phone data does Google Maps use when run for, say, one hour?

Sunshine

2015-05-14 14:35:34 UTC

On Thu, 14 May 2015 08:02:28 -0400, "Howard Lester"

Post by Howard Lester

Post by The Real Bev
The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.

No, it doesn't. It wouldn't be very practical if that were the case. Did you
mean something else?

How much cell-phone data does Google Maps use when run for, say, one hour?

I don't think that question has an easy or repeatable answer. It depends,
and how would you measure it, anyway? I haven't needed an app that can break
down data usage on a 'per app' basis, so I haven't bothered to look for such
a thing. (My cell plan has unlimited data allowance.)

Complicating things slightly is the fact that it doesn't need a data
connection at all in order to navigate, so best case I would say it uses
zero data, but that's disingenuous because most people want it to continue
to update the map as they travel, so a data connection is usually desirable,
even if not required.

On multiple occasions, just for fun, I've entered my destination prior to
boarding a flight when I know I'll be sitting next to the window. During the
flight, with the phone in airplane mode so all radios are off, it navigates
just fine, although as soon as I leave the starting area I lose the ability
to zoom in on the map. As Bert said, I could get around that by prefetching
the data for the trip, but it isn't that important to me. I just zoom out a
bit and use the map to show major cities, lakes, and state borders during
the flight.

The Real Bev

2015-05-15 02:07:29 UTC

The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.

No, it doesn't. It wouldn't be very practical if that were the case. Did you
mean something else?

I mean exactly that. I have no data plan. If I try to use google maps
when I have no wifi connection it doesn't work. I can't remember if
there's an error or a "no connection"
message, but it just doesn't work.

You can save a given area for off-line use, but that's very different.

--
Cheers, Bev
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Nothing in the universe can withstand the relentless application
of brute force and ignorance." -- Frd, via Dennis (evil)

Sunshine

2015-05-15 06:01:43 UTC

The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.

No, it doesn't. It wouldn't be very practical if that were the case. Did you
mean something else?

I mean exactly that. I have no data plan. If I try to use google maps
when I have no wifi connection it doesn't work. I can't remember if
there's an error or a "no connection"
message, but it just doesn't work.
You can save a given area for off-line use, but that's very different.

My experience seems to be different. On my WiFi-only tablet, I can naturally
use Google Maps when I'm connected to WiFi, but I can continue to use Google
Maps when I move outside of WiFi range. All that happens is that I lose map
detail, which isn't a critical failure.

Even without a data connection, the device always knows where *it* is, and
it also knows where *other* places are, even if it's unable to display a
detailed map at the moment.

It's pretty much a different story with my cell phone and its unlimited data
plan, but my tablet more closely mimics your situation, I believe. I don't
know why Google Maps stop working for you when you lose your WiFi
connection. Does your device have a GPS receiver? Mine does.

The Real Bev

2015-05-15 06:55:03 UTC

The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.

No, it doesn't. It wouldn't be very practical if that were the case. Did you
mean something else?

I mean exactly that. I have no data plan. If I try to use google maps
when I have no wifi connection it doesn't work. I can't remember if
there's an error or a "no connection"
message, but it just doesn't work.
You can save a given area for off-line use, but that's very different.

My experience seems to be different. On my WiFi-only tablet, I can naturally
use Google Maps when I'm connected to WiFi, but I can continue to use Google
Maps when I move outside of WiFi range. All that happens is that I lose map
detail, which isn't a critical failure.
Even without a data connection, the device always knows where *it* is, and
it also knows where *other* places are, even if it's unable to display a
detailed map at the moment.
It's pretty much a different story with my cell phone and its unlimited data
plan, but my tablet more closely mimics your situation, I believe. I don't
know why Google Maps stop working for you when you lose your WiFi
connection. Does your device have a GPS receiver? Mine does.

Motorola Moto G Rev 2, and the GPS is very good. Google does NOTHING
without an internet connection.

Map detail is what I would need, and I would need to do a lot of zooming
and panning. I already know the gross stuff :-)

For instance -- I know where I am in Tijuana and I know where I want to
go, but I don't know the address of either place. If I had no wifi
connection, would I be able to get GM to show me the actual route I
should take? Perhaps I could zoom in and tap my current and desired
locations. Does that work?

BUT I'll try to use google maps again tomorrow just in case I'm wrong...

--
Cheers, Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"The fact that windows is one of the most popular ways to
operate a computer means that evolution has made a general
fuckup and our race is doomed." -- Anon.

Sunshine

2015-05-15 16:11:40 UTC

The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.

No, it doesn't. It wouldn't be very practical if that were the case. Did you
mean something else?

I mean exactly that. I have no data plan. If I try to use google maps
when I have no wifi connection it doesn't work. I can't remember if
there's an error or a "no connection"
message, but it just doesn't work.
You can save a given area for off-line use, but that's very different.

My experience seems to be different. On my WiFi-only tablet, I can naturally
use Google Maps when I'm connected to WiFi, but I can continue to use Google
Maps when I move outside of WiFi range. All that happens is that I lose map
detail, which isn't a critical failure.
Even without a data connection, the device always knows where *it* is, and
it also knows where *other* places are, even if it's unable to display a
detailed map at the moment.
It's pretty much a different story with my cell phone and its unlimited data
plan, but my tablet more closely mimics your situation, I believe. I don't
know why Google Maps stop working for you when you lose your WiFi
connection. Does your device have a GPS receiver? Mine does.

Motorola Moto G Rev 2, and the GPS is very good. Google does NOTHING
without an internet connection.
Map detail is what I would need, and I would need to do a lot of zooming
and panning. I already know the gross stuff :-)
For instance -- I know where I am in Tijuana and I know where I want to
go, but I don't know the address of either place. If I had no wifi
connection, would I be able to get GM to show me the actual route I
should take? Perhaps I could zoom in and tap my current and desired
locations. Does that work?
BUT I'll try to use google maps again tomorrow just in case I'm wrong...

I think in your case you'll probably need a network connection in order to
work, so since you don't have mobile data you might have to duck into a shop
with WiFi to get a 'fix' every so often. Not exactly the most convenient, I
know.

I misspoke earlier when I said my tablet keeps working without a network
connection. It keeps working as a map display device, but not as a nav
device. I was confusing my phone with my tablet, I think.

Bert

2015-05-14 13:57:32 UTC

Post by The Real Bev
The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.

It requires a data connection, not specifically WiFi.

If your cell plan doesn't give you much data, I can see why you'd be
concerned.

You can pre-fetch map data for the region you're interested in and save
it on your phone.

I'd ->guess that you'd be able to navigate with your phone only having
to use location data to keep track of where you are.

But as I say, that's purely a guess, since I've never tried that.

--
***@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN

Sunshine

2015-05-14 14:43:46 UTC

Post by The Real Bev
The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.

It requires a data connection, not specifically WiFi.
If your cell plan doesn't give you much data, I can see why you'd be
concerned.
You can pre-fetch map data for the region you're interested in and save
it on your phone.
I'd ->guess that you'd be able to navigate with your phone only having
to use location data to keep track of where you are.
But as I say, that's purely a guess, since I've never tried that.

Correct. The difference is that a Nuvi, for example, has all of the map data
installed at once, which is good because it has no way to get incremental
map data as you travel, but bad because that map data is static, once
loaded. Google Maps on a cell phone, OTOH, doesn't cache the entire country
by default, so it wants to do incremental updates* as you travel. If you
don't allow that, then the result eventually becomes a map that you can't
zoom into, although that doesn't stop the navigation process in any way. If
you put the phone down and just let it speak to you, you won't even notice
that the map no longer has the level of detail it once had.

*Unlike the Nuvi, those incremental map updates are always as fresh as
what's available, not static like the map data on a Nuvi. They also come at
no charge, no hassle, no user intervention or downtime. They do require a
data connection of some kind, though. Still, if a person tends to travel
within a fairly small area, they could probably do just fine without ever
using a data connection to update the maps.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

2015-05-15 11:10:40 UTC

Post by Sunshine
*Unlike the Nuvi, those incremental map updates are always as fresh as
what's available, not static like the map data on a Nuvi. They also come at
no charge, no hassle, no user intervention or downtime.

And to think--we used to get along just fine with paper maps that never
updated themselves and that we didn't change for years.

The fact is, you can go five or more years on a map and never notice the
difference overall.

Bert

2015-05-15 15:19:42 UTC

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
The fact is, you can go five or more years on a map and never notice the
difference overall.

You must not travel much.

Travelling to Norfolk, VA last year, I found that the on-ramp from Norview
Ave to I-64 no longer looked anything like the map that my GPSR had, nor
the map that the friendly folks at the car rental counter gave me.

Travelling to Ft. Myers, FL just a few weeks ago, I found that a new
interchange from Terminal Access Road to I-75 had been added since last
May, with the signage to Ben Hill Griffin Parkway cleverly hidden to
disuade people from using that route. Neither the paper map nor the map in
my GPSR were any help here either.

I update the maps in my GPSR whenever new maps are made available by
Garmin, but they're still always out of date. The paper maps you like to
rely on are guaranteed to be even older.

--
***@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN

Elmo P. Shagnasty

2015-05-16 03:15:50 UTC

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
The fact is, you can go five or more years on a map and never notice the
difference overall.

I never said things didn't change.

I stand by what I said: you'll never notice the difference overall.
You're supposed to use your brain to get yourself around. If you follow
every GPS direction slavishly, you get what you deserve.

Things change, but not so drasticallly that you simply can't get
around--even strange places. If you have a map, even if it's several
years old, you can do fine.

Sunshine

2015-05-15 15:34:47 UTC

On Fri, 15 May 2015 07:10:40 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

And to think--we used to get along just fine with paper maps that never
updated themselves and that we didn't change for years.
The fact is, you can go five or more years on a map and never notice the
difference overall.

For me, the difference is that I never 'navigated' off of paper maps. I used
them to learn a route to a place I hadn't been before, but then I folded the
map neatly and left it home while I traveled. Those were simpler times. When
I first met my wife and saw that she had maps in her car, I thought it was
quite strange.

The Real Bev

2015-05-15 15:44:43 UTC

Post by Sunshine
On Fri, 15 May 2015 07:10:40 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

And to think--we used to get along just fine with paper maps that never
updated themselves and that we didn't change for years.
The fact is, you can go five or more years on a map and never notice the
difference overall.

That's sad. When we were driving across the country for my husband's
job, whenever we got gas it was the children's duty to run into the
station and get one of every map they had. They learned to read maps at
a very young age. We still have boxes of them. Much better souvenirs
than snowglobes.

--
Cheers, Bev
==============================================================
"I am working for the time when unqualified blacks, browns and
women join the unqualified men in running our government"
-- Cissy Farenthold

Aldo Raine

2015-05-15 17:45:49 UTC

Post by Sunshine
On Fri, 15 May 2015 07:10:40 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

And to think--we used to get along just fine with paper maps that never
updated themselves and that we didn't change for years.
The fact is, you can go five or more years on a map and never notice the
difference overall.

Growing up in the 1950's, I was a map accumulator too. Like you said,
every gas station we stopped at on a vacation trip, I'd collect the free
maps. Even convinced my father to stop at different brand stations so I
could get different maps.

After he died a few years ago, I found the box they were stored in up in
his attic. I culled out the duplicates and listed them on Ebay where
they went for a surprisingly nice piece of change!

--
If God intended for us to have big government, there would've been 1,000
Commandments.

The Real Bev

2015-05-15 21:06:15 UTC

Post by Sunshine
On Fri, 15 May 2015 07:10:40 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

Post by Sunshine
*Unlike the Nuvi, those incremental map updates are always as
fresh as what's available, not static like the map data on a
Nuvi. They also come at no charge, no hassle, no user
intervention or downtime.

And to think--we used to get along just fine with paper maps
that never updated themselves and that we didn't change for
years.
The fact is, you can go five or more years on a map and never
notice the difference overall.

For me, the difference is that I never 'navigated' off of paper
maps. I used them to learn a route to a place I hadn't been
before, but then I folded the map neatly and left it home while I
traveled. Those were simpler times. When I first met my wife and
saw that she had maps in her car, I thought it was quite
strange.

That's sad. When we were driving across the country for my
husband's job, whenever we got gas it was the children's duty to
run into the station and get one of every map they had. They
learned to read maps at a very young age. We still have boxes of
them. Much better souvenirs than snowglobes.

Growing up in the 1950's, I was a map accumulator too. Like you
said, every gas station we stopped at on a vacation trip, I'd collect
the free maps. Even convinced my father to stop at different brand
stations so I could get different maps.
After he died a few years ago, I found the box they were stored in up
in his attic. I culled out the duplicates and listed them on Ebay
where they went for a surprisingly nice piece of change!

Easy to ship, too!

The best maps came from the various state tourist-welcome offices,
especially Utah.

--
Cheers, Bev
====================================================================
His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of morbid curiosity.

Sunshine

2015-05-15 17:47:56 UTC

Post by Sunshine
On Fri, 15 May 2015 07:10:40 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

And to think--we used to get along just fine with paper maps that never
updated themselves and that we didn't change for years.
The fact is, you can go five or more years on a map and never notice the
difference overall.

Sad from a nostalgia perspective, or sad some other way?

Perhaps it's equally sad that gas stations don't still have a mechanic on
duty or a dirty teenager who pumps the gas while he checks the oil and
tires. As a kid, I remember one gas station guy who called my mom "Doll",
and she always seemed caught somewhere between amusement and confusion over
it.

The Real Bev

2015-05-15 21:14:55 UTC

Post by Sunshine
On Fri, 15 May 2015 07:10:40 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

And to think--we used to get along just fine with paper maps that never
updated themselves and that we didn't change for years.
The fact is, you can go five or more years on a map and never notice the
difference overall.

Sad from a nostalgia perspective, or sad some other way?

Both. Thinking maps are strange reminds me of just how much younger
people are missing. I'm more tech-sophisticated than my grandkids, and
they're completely ignorant about stuff I would have considered basic
knowledge at their age (HS grads). Geography, history, literature,
chemistry, music. Not deep knowledge, just survey-course level. All
gone. And these kids are the product of really smart ancestors on both
sides.

Post by Sunshine
Perhaps it's equally sad that gas stations don't still have a mechanic on
duty or a dirty teenager who pumps the gas while he checks the oil and
tires. As a kid, I remember one gas station guy who called my mom "Doll",
and she always seemed caught somewhere between amusement and confusion over
it.

It's sad that the jobs that kids used to get in the summer or after
school are mostly gone now. My cousin had a lawn-mowing business when
he was 10 and saved up enough to buy a GAS-POWERED mower so he could
increase his clientele. When was the last time you heard of anything
like that?

Responsibility. Self-sufficiency. Look at your kids and grandkids.
How much do you see?

--
Cheers, Bev
====================================================================
His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of morbid curiosity.

Sunshine

2015-05-16 01:53:49 UTC

Post by Sunshine
On Fri, 15 May 2015 07:10:40 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

And to think--we used to get along just fine with paper maps that never
updated themselves and that we didn't change for years.
The fact is, you can go five or more years on a map and never notice the
difference overall.

Sad from a nostalgia perspective, or sad some other way?

Both. Thinking maps are strange

I only thought it was strange to have them in the car. Growing up, we had a
fairly large collection of folded maps, but we didn't dream of taking them
out of the house. Seems silly in hindsight, but those were the rules.

Post by The Real Bev
reminds me of just how much younger
people are missing. I'm more tech-sophisticated than my grandkids, and
they're completely ignorant about stuff I would have considered basic
knowledge at their age (HS grads). Geography, history, literature,
chemistry, music. Not deep knowledge, just survey-course level. All
gone. And these kids are the product of really smart ancestors on both
sides.

It's sad that the jobs that kids used to get in the summer or after
school are mostly gone now. My cousin had a lawn-mowing business when
he was 10 and saved up enough to buy a GAS-POWERED mower so he could
increase his clientele. When was the last time you heard of anything
like that?
Responsibility. Self-sufficiency. Look at your kids and grandkids.
How much do you see?

No kids of my own, but since he was about 16 my nephew has been buying
motorcycles, jet skis, and snowmobiles and fixing them up for resale. Now
that he's a bit older, he seems to be doing quite well with it. He bought a
much bigger commercial property and a new house in the past two years. It
helps that he's not married.

- Bobb -

2015-07-27 16:58:37 UTC

((snipped))

Post by The Real Bev
It's sad that the jobs that kids used to get in the summer or after
school are mostly gone now. My cousin had a lawn-mowing business when
he was 10 and saved up enough to buy a GAS-POWERED mower so he could
increase his clientele. When was the last time you heard of anything
like that?

THAT is a BIG problem. Not to get too political about it, but reality I've
seen:
With all of the layoffs since the ...80's many of those "jobs for kids" are
now filled by adults. The ones demanding $15 per hr for handing you a
coffee.
Guy in front of me at gas station last week was greeted with " Where ya
been?" He's working 5 part-time jobs because NO one wants full timers since
Obamacare.
Talking to folks at Home Depot- no new hire works more than 28 hrs per wk
and each must work a few of those hours on a weekend.

With more and more seniors working part time even LESS openings for kids.
Only going to get worse as many retire without pension etc. College grads
are moving back HOME.
Govt solution - allow them to stay on parents insurance until they are 28 !
Now THERE's a fix.

--\ ... stepping down from soapbox.

Back to GPS issues

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Aldo Raine

2015-07-28 12:58:45 UTC

Post by - Bobb -
((snipped))

THAT is a BIG problem. Not to get too political about it, but reality
With all of the layoffs since the ...80's many of those "jobs for kids"
are now filled by adults. The ones demanding $15 per hr for handing you
a coffee.
Guy in front of me at gas station last week was greeted with " Where ya
been?" He's working 5 part-time jobs because NO one wants full timers
since Obamacare.
Talking to folks at Home Depot- no new hire works more than 28 hrs per
wk and each must work a few of those hours on a weekend.
With more and more seniors working part time even LESS openings for
kids. Only going to get worse as many retire without pension etc.
College grads are moving back HOME.
Govt solution - allow them to stay on parents insurance until they are 28 !
Now THERE's a fix.
--\ ... stepping down from soapbox.
Back to GPS issues

Around here, illegal aliens from Mexico haves stolen most of the
teenager jobs...

--
When I grew up, our air was polluted....and by God it made us tough.
- @KelsowFarlander

The Real Bev

2015-07-28 19:06:23 UTC

Post by Aldo Raine
Around here, illegal aliens from Mexico haves stolen most of the
teenager jobs...

My, how politically incorrect! We must live in the same place.

--
Cheers, Bev
=========================================================
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of
entrusting a man like him with the presidency. " -- Unknown

Moe DeLoughan

2015-07-28 20:58:05 UTC

Post by Aldo Raine
Around here, illegal aliens from Mexico haves stolen most of the
teenager jobs...

My, how politically incorrect! We must live in the same place.

How do you know they're illegal? Do they wear tags, or do you ask them?

The Real Bev

2015-07-29 06:21:00 UTC

Post by Aldo Raine
Around here, illegal aliens from Mexico haves stolen most of the
teenager jobs...

My, how politically incorrect! We must live in the same place.

How do you know they're illegal? Do they wear tags, or do you ask them?

Educated guess.

No, I don't ask them. I have no reason to. I think that for the most
part they're fine hardworking people who come here because Mexico is a
shithole and immigrating to the US is the only way they can support
their families back home. That doesn't alter the fact that our public
schools are filled with children who are unable to speak English for a
few years at least, thereby depriving everyone of the education they
need. Our freeways are already clogged, with more people
(statistically, apparently mostly illegals) arriving every day.

I wouldn't want to have to leave my country simply because I couldn't
make a living there, and they probably feel the same way. Still, I
don't want my country to become the shithole that they left.

Note: I speak Spanish, but not as well as I used to. We go to Mexico
for dental work. I like Mexican food. The Mexican gardeners and
day-laborers are probably all illegal, but they're polite, friendly and
helpful. Decent people.

I actually welcome any foreigners who want to actually become Americans.
Just not in huge numbers. Look up 'tragedy of the commons'.

--
Cheers, Bev
*******************************************
"Let them all go to hell, except Cave 76"
-- Mel Brooks

- Bobb -

2015-07-31 18:07:07 UTC

re: "our public schools are filled with children who are unable to speak
English"
Aside from the politics/opinion part of it...
My niece teaches via sign language and whenever a deaf / foreign child is
admitted they need a translator. A few years back there were 43 different
language translators in the grammar school where she worked. Many of the
foreign language teachers just had one student.
I didn't even know there WERE 43 different languages.

Post by Aldo Raine
Around here, illegal aliens from Mexico haves stolen most of the
teenager jobs...

My, how politically incorrect! We must live in the same place.

How do you know they're illegal? Do they wear tags, or do you ask them?

Educated guess.
No, I don't ask them. I have no reason to. I think that for the most
part they're fine hardworking people who come here because Mexico is a
shithole and immigrating to the US is the only way they can support their
families back home. That doesn't alter the fact that our public schools
are filled with children who are unable to speak English for a few years
at least, thereby depriving everyone of the education they need. Our
freeways are already clogged, with more people (statistically, apparently
mostly illegals) arriving every day.
I wouldn't want to have to leave my country simply because I couldn't make
a living there, and they probably feel the same way. Still, I don't want
my country to become the shithole that they left.
Note: I speak Spanish, but not as well as I used to. We go to Mexico for
dental work. I like Mexican food. The Mexican gardeners and
day-laborers are probably all illegal, but they're polite, friendly and
helpful. Decent people.
I actually welcome any foreigners who want to actually become Americans.
Just not in huge numbers. Look up 'tragedy of the commons'.
--
Cheers, Bev
*******************************************
"Let them all go to hell, except Cave 76"
-- Mel Brooks

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Alaric

2015-08-02 15:51:21 UTC

Post by - Bobb -
re: "our public schools are filled with children who are unable to speak
English"
Aside from the politics/opinion part of it...
My niece teaches via sign language and whenever a deaf / foreign child is
admitted they need a translator. A few years back there were 43 different
language translators in the grammar school where she worked. Many of the
foreign language teachers just had one student.
I didn't even know there WERE 43 different languages.

Post by Aldo Raine
Around here, illegal aliens from Mexico haves stolen most of the
teenager jobs...

My, how politically incorrect! We must live in the same place.

How do you know they're illegal? Do they wear tags, or do you ask them?

Educated guess.
No, I don't ask them. I have no reason to. I think that for the most
part they're fine hardworking people who come here because Mexico is a
shithole and immigrating to the US is the only way they can support their
families back home. That doesn't alter the fact that our public schools
are filled with children who are unable to speak English for a few years
at least, thereby depriving everyone of the education they need. Our
freeways are already clogged, with more people (statistically, apparently
mostly illegals) arriving every day.
I wouldn't want to have to leave my country simply because I couldn't
make a living there, and they probably feel the same way. Still, I don't
want my country to become the shithole that they left.
Note: I speak Spanish, but not as well as I used to. We go to Mexico
for dental work. I like Mexican food. The Mexican gardeners and
day-laborers are probably all illegal, but they're polite, friendly and
helpful. Decent people.
I actually welcome any foreigners who want to actually become Americans.
Just not in huge numbers. Look up 'tragedy of the commons'.
--
Cheers, Bev
*******************************************
"Let them all go to hell, except Cave 76"
-- Mel Brooks

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As a Garmin user PLEASE sit on your shithole and keep silent !

nn

Aldo Raine

2015-07-29 22:17:08 UTC

Post by Aldo Raine
Around here, illegal aliens from Mexico haves stolen most of the
teenager jobs...

My, how politically incorrect! We must live in the same place.

How do you know they're illegal? Do they wear tags, or do you ask them?

That furtive look of fear in their shifty, beady eyes usually gives them
away-- especially when I loud-whisper "la migra, la migra" to my
companion just to see what happens...

--
Political correctness is tyranny with a happy face.
- Charlton Heston

Aldo Raine

2015-07-29 22:20:21 UTC

Post by Aldo Raine
Around here, illegal aliens from Mexico haves stolen most of the
teenager jobs...

My, how politically incorrect! We must live in the same place.

Regrettably, the same place means the last line in our addresses is USA...

--
“Political correctness is a doctrine-- fostered by an illogical minority
and widely promoted by the mainstream media-- that postulates it’s
entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

Aldo Raine

2015-05-16 14:33:59 UTC

I don't think it's so much that the jobs are gone, but the culture has
changed and no longer values or rewards that kind of behavior-- so you
don't see it. The kids have no expectation that they should work because
their parents didn't instill it.

Yeah, the gas station jobs are gone-- but burger flipping slots have
offset that loss. These days though, you better speak Spanish or you
won't fit on a Mickey D's crew.

My jobs when I was a cadet included: cutting lawns, shoveling snow,
retail sales clerk in both a men's clothing store and a ladies' shoe
store, truck unloader in lab furniture manufacturer, and mailman back
when it was still the Post Office Department, not the USPS.

--
When I had minimum wage jobs, my goal was to better myself— not to
better the minimum wage.
- @patsajak

The Real Bev

2015-05-16 17:55:35 UTC

I don't think it's so much that the jobs are gone, but the culture has
changed and no longer values or rewards that kind of behavior-- so you
don't see it. The kids have no expectation that they should work because
their parents didn't instill it.
Yeah, the gas station jobs are gone-- but burger flipping slots have
offset that loss. These days though, you better speak Spanish or you
won't fit on a Mickey D's crew.
My jobs when I was a cadet included: cutting lawns, shoveling snow,
retail sales clerk in both a men's clothing store and a ladies' shoe
store, truck unloader in lab furniture manufacturer, and mailman back
when it was still the Post Office Department, not the USPS.

I started working part time at Sears when I was 16 (I lied).
Salesclerks actually helped people than. Showed them where stuff was,
how it worked, asked them what they needed it for and made suggestions.
You wouldn't think there was a lot to learn about towels, sheets,
doilies (yes, there was a BIG selection of doilies and people actually
bought them), etc. but there was. I made up wedding-gift packages for
people. I felt really strange helping grandmothers with sheet selection
-- damn, aren't they supposed to already know this stuff?

One thing you learn working directly with the public: people are REALLY
stupid and a lot of them are rotten.

Best job offer I've ever had: Mrs. Berg, the owner of the REAL hardware
store that had been around forever and where I bought a lot of weird
stuff, wanted me to work for them along with the old guys who had been
there forever. I couldn't take it (toddlers), but I still feel honored.
The store just closed its doors last year. Crying shame.

--
Cheers, Bev
*********************************************
Not all cultures are equal. If they were, we
would have a lot more cannibal restaurants.

Aldo Raine

2015-05-16 20:49:56 UTC

I don't think it's so much that the jobs are gone, but the culture has
changed and no longer values or rewards that kind of behavior-- so you
don't see it. The kids have no expectation that they should work because
their parents didn't instill it.
Yeah, the gas station jobs are gone-- but burger flipping slots have
offset that loss. These days though, you better speak Spanish or you
won't fit on a Mickey D's crew.
My jobs when I was a cadet included: cutting lawns, shoveling snow,
retail sales clerk in both a men's clothing store and a ladies' shoe
store, truck unloader in lab furniture manufacturer, and mailman back
when it was still the Post Office Department, not the USPS.

I started working part time at Sears when I was 16 (I lied). Salesclerks
actually helped people than. Showed them where stuff was, how it
worked, asked them what they needed it for and made suggestions. You
wouldn't think there was a lot to learn about towels, sheets, doilies
(yes, there was a BIG selection of doilies and people actually bought
them), etc. but there was. I made up wedding-gift packages for people.
I felt really strange helping grandmothers with sheet selection -- damn,
aren't they supposed to already know this stuff?
One thing you learn working directly with the public: people are REALLY
stupid and a lot of them are rotten.
Best job offer I've ever had: Mrs. Berg, the owner of the REAL hardware
store that had been around forever and where I bought a lot of weird
stuff, wanted me to work for them along with the old guys who had been
there forever. I couldn't take it (toddlers), but I still feel honored.
The store just closed its doors last year. Crying shame.

Yeah, the average person can be pretty stupid sometimes..and by
definition, half the folks are dumber than that. Scary part is all of
them can vote and serve on juries.

My favorite job was Postman, especially when driving a 24 foot box truck
delivering sacks of mail to the different post offices in nearby towns.
Most runs included a few sacks of Registered Mail which was required to
travel by armed courier back them.

You were issued-- and strapped on-- a revolver, holster, and gun belt.
This with no training, no range time, no instruction on safety, or what
circumstances justified drawing-down on someone!! The assumption was
that common sense would prevail--- and it did. Us guys packing heat
were a special club in the post office. Can't imagine something like
that working today.

--
When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on Paul’s vote.
- President Ronald Reagan

The Real Bev

2015-05-15 02:09:08 UTC

Post by The Real Bev
The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.

It requires a data connection, not specifically WiFi.
If your cell plan doesn't give you much data, I can see why you'd be
concerned.

No data plan at all. T-Mobile voice pre-paid at $10.00/year.

Post by Bert
You can pre-fetch map data for the region you're interested in and save
it on your phone.
I'd ->guess that you'd be able to navigate with your phone only having
to use location data to keep track of where you are.
But as I say, that's purely a guess, since I've never tried that.

Bert

2015-05-15 16:11:28 UTC

Post by The Real Bev
No data plan at all. T-Mobile voice pre-paid at $10.00/year.

That's now what they call the "legacy" plan :-)

With their current pre-paid plan, they offer data "on demand" at $5 for
500MB for one day, or $10 for 1GB for a week. I don't know if you can get
that with the old pay-as-you-go plan.

I looked at their "mobile internet" plan for tablets and WiFi hotspots,
which are reasonably priced, starting at $20/mo for 1GB of data. Since
there's no contract and no phone number to worry about losing, you can
simply cancel the account when you're not travelling and open a new one
when you are. You can get a re-furbed 4G hotspot for $50.

--
***@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN

The Real Bev

2015-05-15 21:03:56 UTC

Post by The Real Bev
No data plan at all. T-Mobile voice pre-paid at $10.00/year.

That's now what they call the "legacy" plan :-)
With their current pre-paid plan, they offer data "on demand" at $5 for
500MB for one day, or $10 for 1GB for a week. I don't know if you can get
that with the old pay-as-you-go plan.
I looked at their "mobile internet" plan for tablets and WiFi hotspots,
which are reasonably priced, starting at $20/mo for 1GB of data. Since
there's no contract and no phone number to worry about losing, you can
simply cancel the account when you're not travelling and open a new one
when you are. You can get a re-furbed 4G hotspot for $50.

I will keep my $10 legacy plan as long as they offer it. I don't need
anything more. I might be willing to pay a reasonable amount on a
per-GB basis, but prices like that are ridiculous for what I need.

If I took advantage of those data plans I would forfeit my $10 plan. No
way.

FWIW, I just tried to use google maps up the street when I was NOT
connected to a wifi network. (I could have just turned off wifi while I
was sitting here next to the router, but I wanted to be SURE.) I asked
it for directions from my location to Tijuana, Mexico (I had downloaded
the Mexico map for use offline). Nothing. Not even a little rotating
line.

--
Cheers, Bev
========================================================
His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of morbid curiosity.

Sunshine

2015-05-15 21:23:26 UTC

Post by The Real Bev
No data plan at all. T-Mobile voice pre-paid at $10.00/year.

That's now what they call the "legacy" plan :-)
With their current pre-paid plan, they offer data "on demand" at $5 for
500MB for one day, or $10 for 1GB for a week. I don't know if you can get
that with the old pay-as-you-go plan.
I looked at their "mobile internet" plan for tablets and WiFi hotspots,
which are reasonably priced, starting at $20/mo for 1GB of data. Since
there's no contract and no phone number to worry about losing, you can
simply cancel the account when you're not travelling and open a new one
when you are. You can get a re-furbed 4G hotspot for $50.

I will keep my $10 legacy plan as long as they offer it. I don't need
anything more. I might be willing to pay a reasonable amount on a
per-GB basis, but prices like that are ridiculous for what I need.
If I took advantage of those data plans I would forfeit my $10 plan. No
way.
FWIW, I just tried to use google maps up the street when I was NOT
connected to a wifi network. (I could have just turned off wifi while I
was sitting here next to the router, but I wanted to be SURE.) I asked
it for directions from my location to Tijuana, Mexico (I had downloaded
the Mexico map for use offline). Nothing. Not even a little rotating
line.

*shrug* Ya makes yer choices, ya gotta live with'em.

For me, a $10 no-data plan wouldn't be worth $10, so no thanks.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

2015-05-15 11:07:26 UTC

Post by The Real Bev
The problem with google maps is that it requires wifi to operate.

As it sits, that statement is factually incorrect. Blatantly so.

Do you stand by that statement as you wrote it?

I guess, welcome to the internet. Someone will read that and take it at
face value, and go off half-cocked with wrong information.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

2015-05-15 11:06:10 UTC

I use my phone as a phone. Hence, having it try to do two
mission-critical things simultaneously--be a voice phone plus be a
navigator for me while I'm on the road--simply doesn't work.

The last time I used Google Maps, it was woefully pitiful compared to
what Garmin could do. It actually had completely wrong locations for
addresses, for example. Since I had used Garmin for many years and knew
what it could do, I simply went back to Garmin and stayed.

Sunshine

2015-05-15 15:47:33 UTC

On Fri, 15 May 2015 07:06:10 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

I use my phone as a phone. Hence, having it try to do two
mission-critical things simultaneously--be a voice phone plus be a
navigator for me while I'm on the road--simply doesn't work.

I don't use my phone as a phone while I'm driving. Besides being illegal
where I live, it's inherently unsafe. That means it's available to be used
as something else, so I use it as a nav aid, (only when I need to), and it
works wonderfully for that. I input the destination, usually by voice, then
I turn off the screen and put it down somewhere, letting it talk to me as I
drive. I see that your experience was different, but for me it works so much
better than my older Nuvi 760. The Nuvi is beyond clunky, by comparison.

Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
The last time I used Google Maps, it was woefully pitiful compared to
what Garmin could do. It actually had completely wrong locations for
addresses, for example. Since I had used Garmin for many years and knew
what it could do, I simply went back to Garmin and stayed.

I've gotten more wrong locations from Garmin than from Google Maps. No maps
are perfect, but I'll be sticking with Google Maps. For me, they've done a
much better job than Garmin.

Ed Pawlowski

2015-05-15 23:25:48 UTC

Post by Sunshine
I don't use my phone as a phone while I'm driving. Besides being illegal
where I live, it's inherently unsafe.

Most states allow use with Bluetooth. Even then, it can be a
distraction. You have to know when and what type of traffic. Common
sense is often lacking though.

That means it's available to be used

Post by Sunshine
as something else, so I use it as a nav aid, (only when I need to), and it
works wonderfully for that. I input the destination, usually by voice, then
I turn off the screen and put it down somewhere, letting it talk to me as I
drive. I see that your experience was different, but for me it works so much
better than my older Nuvi 760. The Nuvi is beyond clunky, by comparison.

Voice directions are OK most of the time. "Take exit 22" is simple
enough. At times it is really nice to have that lane assist feature to
be sure you follow the correct lane. Depends on where you travel, you
may never need it.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

2015-05-16 03:17:56 UTC

Post by Sunshine
I don't use my phone as a phone while I'm driving. Besides being illegal
where I live, it's inherently unsafe. That means it's available to be used
as something else

How is "using it as something else" NOT "inherently unsafe"?

Think about it.

Sunshine

2015-05-16 04:52:40 UTC

On Fri, 15 May 2015 23:17:56 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

Post by Sunshine
I don't use my phone as a phone while I'm driving. Besides being illegal
where I live, it's inherently unsafe. That means it's available to be used
as something else

How is "using it as something else" NOT "inherently unsafe"?
Think about it.

It's lying on the center console, out of my line of sight, screen turned
off. I can hear it just fine from there, and that kind of usage isn't
illegal here. With the screen off, I'm not tempted to look down at it. I
don't think this kind of usage is any more unsafe than having the radio on
or having a passenger in the car. It's not zero risk, but it's low risk.

Aldo Raine

2015-05-12 14:21:58 UTC

Yeah, stuff happens once in a while...but it's still pretty incredible
technology, and for only $159!

--
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other
people's money...
- Margaret Thatcher

2015-05-14 16:00:58 UTC

Yeah, stuff happens once in a while...but it's still pretty incredible
technology, and for only $159!

You are right on there. You can really appreciate what a gps unit can
do if you have ever worked out a fix using celestial navigation.
MR

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2015-05-14 23:51:52 UTC

Post by MR

Yeah, stuff happens once in a while...but it's still pretty incredible
technology, and for only $159!

You are right on there. You can really appreciate what a gps unit can
do if you have ever worked out a fix using celestial navigation.
MR

Forgot to add that I have a refurbed 2595 that is working just fine.
Like Ed said, it is always good to have a general idea where you are
heading and not blindly follow your gps.
MR

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Tom J

2015-06-21 23:53:25 UTC

My Garmin has settings for me to go the fastest route or the shortest route
when I give it a point to go to.
Tom J

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The Real Bev

2015-06-22 18:01:00 UTC

My Garmin has settings for me to go the fastest route or the shortest route
when I give it a point to go to.

Duh. So does mine, but that's not enough. "Shortest" often involves
long stretches of stop+go city traffic. "Fastest" appears to send me
off the freeway to route around 'traffic' that turns out to not exist.

That particular insanity was neither fast nor short -- just wrong at all
possible levels.

Most recent annoyance was when it wanted to route me off perfectly good
freeways (in 'fastest' mode) to send me on a long stop+go for no reason
at all -- I chose to stay on the freeways and was doing 75mph all the
way home.

At this point I regard it mainly as a source of "Where's the nearest
Costco?" information. I'm glad I keep paper maps in the car.

--
Cheers, Bev
--------------------------------------------------------------------
HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays
is used as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive bike parts not
far from the object we are trying to hit.

Bert

2015-06-22 20:26:53 UTC

"Fastest" appears to send me off the freeway to route around 'traffic'
that turns out to not exist.

Then you should probably disable the traffic monitor function.

--
***@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN

- Bobb -

2015-07-22 15:41:44 UTC

My Garmin has settings for me to go the fastest route or the shortest route
when I give it a point to go to.

Duh. So does mine, but that's not enough. "Shortest" often involves long
stretches of stop+go city traffic. "Fastest" appears to send me off the
freeway to route around 'traffic' that turns out to not exist.
That particular insanity was neither fast nor short -- just wrong at all
possible levels.
Most recent annoyance was when it wanted to route me off perfectly good
freeways (in 'fastest' mode) to send me on a long stop+go for no reason at
all -- I chose to stay on the freeways and was doing 75mph all the way
home.
At this point I regard it mainly as a source of "Where's the nearest
Costco?" information. I'm glad I keep paper maps in the car.
--
Cheers, Bev

Does anyone know where Garmin guidance vs NAVTEQ info begins ?

I THINK Garmin just is responsible for the INTERFACE right ? Which seems to
be getting worse for the user. More convoluted menues -to make it easier
for THEM to reuse code on several models, even if on the base model you have
to click-click-click on menus with only one choice. THAT's the really
aggravating part. Seems that they see that "it works "- "Ship it", rather
than tweaking it on each model for easiest user interaction BEFORE signing
off on it as "done".

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Sunshine

2015-07-22 17:01:26 UTC

Post by - Bobb -
Does anyone know where Garmin guidance vs NAVTEQ info begins ?
I THINK Garmin just is responsible for the INTERFACE right ? Which seems to
be getting worse for the user. More convoluted menues -to make it easier
for THEM to reuse code on several models, even if on the base model you have
to click-click-click on menus with only one choice. THAT's the really
aggravating part. Seems that they see that "it works "- "Ship it", rather
than tweaking it on each model for easiest user interaction BEFORE signing
off on it as "done".

I have a couple of friends who work at Garmin and they tell me that there's
an atmosphere of optimism there, which they find a bit ironic now that smart
phones have rapidly taken over the personal navigation space. Internally,
efforts appear to be shifting back toward government/military projects, with
a special emphasis on aviation. In a way, Garmin has come nearly full
circle.

All of that leads me to believe that there's probably relatively little
emphasis currently being placed on the Nuvi line. Code reuse is probably a
high priority, as would be anything that lowers costs.

2015-07-26 16:12:15 UTC

Post by - Bobb -

My Garmin has settings for me to go the fastest route or the shortest route
when I give it a point to go to.

Duh. So does mine, but that's not enough. "Shortest" often involves
long stretches of stop+go city traffic. "Fastest" appears to send me
off the freeway to route around 'traffic' that turns out to not exist.
That particular insanity was neither fast nor short -- just wrong at
all possible levels.
Most recent annoyance was when it wanted to route me off perfectly
good freeways (in 'fastest' mode) to send me on a long stop+go for no
reason at all -- I chose to stay on the freeways and was doing 75mph
all the way home.
At this point I regard it mainly as a source of "Where's the nearest
Costco?" information. I'm glad I keep paper maps in the car.
--
Cheers, Bev

Does anyone know where Garmin guidance vs NAVTEQ info begins ?
I THINK Garmin just is responsible for the INTERFACE right ? Which seems
to be getting worse for the user. More convoluted menues -to make it
easier for THEM to reuse code on several models, even if on the base
model you have to click-click-click on menus with only one choice.
THAT's the really aggravating part. Seems that they see that "it works
"- "Ship it", rather than tweaking it on each model for easiest user
interaction BEFORE signing off on it as "done".

Ageed about the menus. Sold my 1350lmt and bought the 2595lmt and had
to learn where stuff was and how to get there. Seems that is SOP in
electronic products these days..........keep improving it until it is
very not convenient to use. i.e. MS Win. 8 an example.
MR

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Motzy

2015-08-05 15:49:04 UTC

I've had 2595LMT since December and not impressed - prefer my 265T. Had
credit at Best Buy and a sale so rather than $100 for new map on 265T ( and
have it die a week later) I got the 2595. I've driven the whole East coast
with it and often the 265T with a year old original map is more accurate.

In VA last month I wanted to go to "yacht club" to meet someone No I'm not
bragging - I don't even have a boat, but the point is - it's been there a
long time. I was using both GPS's just in case. My 2595 told me - over
bridge- right-right-right-left - over bridge! 265T told me that it was on
other side of street so I didn't go back over bridge. Had appt in Norfolk at
9am = bus meeting us in parking lot. Left hotel a few miles away at 8:15.
830 we're there . 8:50 no else showing up , no bus - something wrong. Got a
phone call - go to HS ball filed instead ! in car - go to - community -
school - nope, recreation-nope... no high school ! BY chance saw a paper
sign on side street " MEET on left 1/3 mile".
Summary - new gps with new map was useless.
I MUCH prefer the 265T
On sunny day, on 2595 click map - route for text directions and font too
small. 70mph on sunny day with sunglasses on - CAN'T READ IT . 265 font EASY
to read. AND the 265 text directions UPDATE as you drive. The 2595 text
directions do not change. the next turn is ALWAYS 5 miles away - or whatever
it was when you first viewed it. Dumb.

In Florida on US-301 the speed limit changes a LOT. But not on the 2595. IF
in reality it goes from 60-45-35-30 then back up 35-45-60, then down again
( Really - drive thru Starke or Lawtey - speed traps in many of the small
towns) but new GPS didn't change as the limits did.

From NH down to DC it directs me thru GW Bridge in NYC ! Are you kidding me
? It often takes 2 hours to cross it. No way to easily "Avoid" it with
Garmin ( probably Navteq issue , but SOMEONE ought to make it easy to
navigate the BIG picture) I drove to Tappan Zee then down GSP. Even if a bit
longer it is SO much nicer.

With all models of Garmin auto, why so tedious to get back to "desktop". If
you did a search- thru favorites ( WHY change to SAVED?) then down down
down, need to go back,back,back. Should be one icon to get "back to map
desktop".

This weekend we were at beach and parked car. I was trying to figure out how
wide beach was and wanted to get into pedestrian mode. At north end of beach
and south end of beach saved link, clicked go to "other end" and it gave me
DRIVING directions. Back in car I looked it up and had to press the auto
icon in upper left. THEN option to choose Pedestrian mode. But no other way
via ANY menu to do that.
WHY not keep consistent ? ( HE asked rhetorically)

Why isn't DETOUR an option from map screen ?
I've written them to complain and gotten acknowledgements but irritating
that after all this time there are so many user interface issues.

Biggest issue for me is text mode (directions) - font size and 2595 doesn't
update info. On 265T I often leave in text mode if driving in tight quarters
so I can see next turns in advance. (left .25m, right 200 feet, left 1m,
etc) and it updates as I drive. On 2595 the exit 4 miles ahead is ALWAYS 4
miles ahead. On 265 text goes from 4.0 to 3.9,3.8... as you drive.

My Garmin has settings for me to go the fastest route or the shortest
route when I give it a point to go to.
Tom J
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Ed Pawlowski

2015-08-07 10:03:31 UTC

Sure sounds like a PITA Since you have the LMT, I'd certainly get the
latest version and hope it is better than what you have.

- Bobb -

2015-08-07 20:15:18 UTC

Post by Ed Pawlowski

Sure sounds like a PITA Since you have the LMT, I'd certainly get the
latest version and hope it is better than what you have.

that WAS the latest map on 2595LMT. I updated just before leaving on trip. I
emailed them. They said that they would submit a change order reminder. My
265 has a 2009? map and it is more often right. THAT was why I was using
both... if difference and I'd been there before, I know that 265 is right.
In this case I HADN'T been there so followed the new one - until it sent me
back to where I came from. I then looked at 265 ( on mute) and went there -
it was right.

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2015-08-07 20:42:24 UTC

Post by Motzy
I've had 2595LMT since December and not impressed - prefer my 265T. Had
credit at Best Buy and a sale so rather than $100 for new map on 265T ( and
have it die a week later) I got the 2595. I've driven the whole East coast
with it and often the 265T with a year old original map is more accurate.
In VA last month I wanted to go to "yacht club" to meet someone No I'm not
bragging - I don't even have a boat, but the point is - it's been there a
long time. I was using both GPS's just in case. My 2595 told me - over
bridge- right-right-right-left - over bridge! 265T told me that it was on
other side of street so I didn't go back over bridge. Had appt in Norfolk at
9am = bus meeting us in parking lot. Left hotel a few miles away at 8:15.
830 we're there . 8:50 no else showing up , no bus - something wrong. Got a
phone call - go to HS ball filed instead ! in car - go to - community -
school - nope, recreation-nope... no high school ! BY chance saw a paper
sign on side street " MEET on left 1/3 mile".
Summary - new gps with new map was useless.
I MUCH prefer the 265T
On sunny day, on 2595 click map - route for text directions and font too
small. 70mph on sunny day with sunglasses on - CAN'T READ IT . 265 font EASY
to read. AND the 265 text directions UPDATE as you drive. The 2595 text
directions do not change. the next turn is ALWAYS 5 miles away - or whatever
it was when you first viewed it. Dumb.
In Florida on US-301 the speed limit changes a LOT. But not on the 2595. IF
in reality it goes from 60-45-35-30 then back up 35-45-60, then down again
( Really - drive thru Starke or Lawtey - speed traps in many of the small
towns) but new GPS didn't change as the limits did.
From NH down to DC it directs me thru GW Bridge in NYC ! Are you kidding me
? It often takes 2 hours to cross it. No way to easily "Avoid" it with
Garmin ( probably Navteq issue , but SOMEONE ought to make it easy to
navigate the BIG picture) I drove to Tappan Zee then down GSP. Even if a bit
longer it is SO much nicer.
With all models of Garmin auto, why so tedious to get back to "desktop". If
you did a search- thru favorites ( WHY change to SAVED?) then down down
down, need to go back,back,back. Should be one icon to get "back to map
desktop".
This weekend we were at beach and parked car. I was trying to figure out how
wide beach was and wanted to get into pedestrian mode. At north end of beach
and south end of beach saved link, clicked go to "other end" and it gave me
DRIVING directions. Back in car I looked it up and had to press the auto
icon in upper left. THEN option to choose Pedestrian mode. But no other way
via ANY menu to do that.
WHY not keep consistent ? ( HE asked rhetorically)
Why isn't DETOUR an option from map screen ?
I've written them to complain and gotten acknowledgements but irritating
that after all this time there are so many user interface issues.
Biggest issue for me is text mode (directions) - font size and 2595 doesn't
update info. On 265T I often leave in text mode if driving in tight quarters
so I can see next turns in advance. (left .25m, right 200 feet, left 1m,
etc) and it updates as I drive. On 2595 the exit 4 miles ahead is ALWAYS 4
miles ahead. On 265 text goes from 4.0 to 3.9,3.8... as you drive.